Brain, Hope, Reality: PTSI not PTSD | Hosted by Dr. Eugene Lipov

Dr. Eugene Lipov (00:01.252)
All right, welcome to the next episode of Brain Hope Reality. PTSD, not PTSD, and we'll talk about that. We have a very special guest today. He's going to introduce himself. I don't want to get the name wrong. We're to be talking about PTSD slash PTSD. We're to be talking about what veterans are dealing with currently and how things are coming. Welcome.

Thank you for having me, doctor. I appreciate it. My name is Juan Perez. A lot of you might know me as JP, the veteran coach on social media. And I really appreciate being here. This is day two for me. So day one was the first shot. And I want to say that I do feel the difference, but I also am waiting to see how much more change I see.

A little bit about me. Proof is in the pudding, right? Yeah, absolutely. Simple. So a little bit about me, if you don't mind if I... Please, please, please. I was born here in Chicago. I joined the Marine Corps in 18 because I was a misfit in every area of my life. I've been in some sort of service-related field for the past. Since I was 18, I'll it to that way. I went into the Marines when I was 18, deployed to Afghanistan.

served overseas, came home and I couldn't make sense of anything and I was going through a lot without even knowing what it was. I ended up going into law enforcement. Can I interrupt you? I'm gonna tell them to move. They're speaking. Yeah, absolutely. Because I hear too much noise. yeah, okay. I get it. That's gonna be pretty bad quality. Yeah. I'm sorry. No, no. I'm glad you said something.

Dr. Eugene Lipov (01:46.689)
Bye.

Dr. Eugene Lipov (01:55.236)
Let's start again. I'm sorry. It's okay. No, doesn't bother. We're good now. No more noise. Okay So tell us your background a little bit about me. I was actually born in Chicago I joined the Marine Corps at 18 because I didn't know what else to do in my life at the time I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 24 Way after the military and I think that had a lot to do with the fact that I was looking for order

And then I went to the Marine Corps and it provided me order, but it also provided me a lot of chaos. What I like to tell people is that the best decision I ever made was to go into the military. And the second best decision I ever made was to get out of the military. However, what I ended up doing after that is I went into law enforcement. So I served in the Chicago police department for the last 10 years. And that prevented me from healing because I stayed in a very chaotic environment.

And I think that one of the things that we're going to talk about today is is PTSD versus PTSD, right? You know it. Show us our pins. Okay, we got blink. And the reason why I think that this this word is very scary for a lot of veterans is because I was under the impression that I couldn't say the P word.

if I ever wanted to go into law enforcement. So for five plus years, I didn't talk about that. I didn't get seen. I didn't get help. I ignored it. And I think we're going to talk about some of that stigma today. But what I'm doing right now is I'm actually leaving law enforcement. have the Vetrise Academy, which is a coaching program for veterans. I also run the Vetrise Podcast, which is a podcast where I talk about specific veteran issues. But my biggest thing, and I'm sure we'll get into it, is that

We need to start focusing on the present and where we're at now while addressing the past and understand that it does affect us, but it doesn't keep us in a stage where we are doomed to live that life. Would you say it doesn't define you? It does not define you. Absolutely. And it's not a lifestyle. you say? Absolutely. Those are my two big things. PTSD is not a lifestyle, but it shouldn't be. PTSD is a medical diagnosis that is treatable using medical science.

Dr. Eugene Lipov (04:20.664)
What a concept. ahead. sorry. I mean, I love that because I think it becomes a lifestyle. I think that a lot of veterans, we feel like it is our identity. We feel like it's the only thing that made sense to us and we kind of enjoy the chaos. And therefore we feel like if we lose that, then what do we have left if we have nothing else? So can I give you my medical thing? So I think there are a couple of things. Number one,

Let's talk about PTSD for a second. The term, where it came from, where we are now and where it should be. And this is something I'd like to recruit your help in. So I'm more of a scientist than a social influencer, which I'm not a social influencer by any measure. can barely spell. But if you look at PTSD, the first time the science of PTSD was described was during the Roman Empire, 2000 years ago. In the modern era,

The first time PTSD like symptoms were described systematically was during the civil war. It was called a soldier's heart. And they described it as people getting faint, the heart was beating and they were uncomfortable physically. So you can actually measure that or see that for yourself. During World War II, World War I, it became shell shock. Then it became battle fatigue. Then it became Vietnam syndrome.

And then in 1980 DSM3, so that's what psychiatrists use to make diagnosis, DSM3 defined PTSD term. So it has not changed since 1980. Science has changed a little since 1980. Keep in mind, DSM is an interesting book because psychiatry doesn't lend itself as well to diagnostic. Like, hard problems, pretty easy to diagnose, right?

Somebody's having a heart attack, you can dissect the heart and you can see the heart died. But DSM-1, homosexuality is considered mental disorder. Point is, it's not absolute. DSM-2, shockingly, that was no longer in that book because the protests were quite significant. and it's not a justice history, I'm not making any socially important comments here. But the key point is, so the reason I got interested in the term, because...

Dr. Eugene Lipov (06:45.284)
I am not a psychiatrist. In fact, I would say I'm anti-psychiatry in many ways. I'm anti ineffective psychiatry. So I like psychiatric interventions which are effective. So my particular background is my father had severe PTSD from World War II. was part of a squadron that's got 10,000 flyers and that job was to drop bombs and torpedoes on German ships. And they didn't like being destroyed obviously. So out of 10,100 made it home.

So my father had severe PTSD. He gave it to my mother and me. That's called secondary PTSD, which made me touch on that. So eventually it led to my mother's So my mother saw her psychiatrist a day before she died. So I would say my view of psychiatry then, and unfortunately it hasn't changed that much currently, is not optimal. So to me, we need to do something that works quicker, that's dependable.

and it's easy to do. Taking medications all day long, it's hard to do. It's called compliance. And compliance to medication is pretty low, right? Because it makes you sick and doesn't work, whatever. But again, so I met an amazing man. His name is Frank Iberg. So he's 87 years old now. He used to be the number two man for National Institute Mental Health. He defined the term Stockholm Syndrome. So, know, he's a high-end guy. So he talked about the name change that is required.

because he has been working with a lot of military personnel and they were saying, we're killing my brothers and sisters, they're killing themselves because of the stigma associated with the term PTSD because nobody wants to be sick like that because there's no end in sight. So he hooked up with or connected with Peter Shirely, General Shirely, four star general. He was an army general, not medical. So he went, he, Frank.

He, Peter Shirelli went to American Secure Registration in 2013 and said, we need to change the name because people are dying because there's so much stigma. And APA and their wisdom said no. So in 2023, I did the study. What happens, we asked 3000 people, if you have a name change, will there be a change in how you get care? And they said, yes. So the bottom line is if you can reduce the stigma,

Dr. Eugene Lipov (09:10.564)
People will get care and they won't die. That's pretty straightforward. So I went to the APA and I said, this is information. This is what we need to change it. And the requirement for the APA changes the name is to demonstrate that current name causes harm. Reasonable. So I said, well, this is what it's doing. This is a statistic. This is a numbers. This is everything. Keep in mind, APA has changed number of other terms. For example, learning disability was changed to learning differences because it's called stigma.

They've done it between the S and four, the S and five. So you'd think there's many more people with PTSD or PTSD that learn disability. But they changed that, but they wouldn't change PTSD. So there's a lot of interesting reasons why it doesn't change, but I'm not trying to speculate. I'm just telling you that's why have it. If you'd to see that whole detail, including Peter Shirell, this testimony, it's all on the website, itsptsi.com. Very specific.

No craziness. I gave a presentation about this at the American Psychiatric Association in 2013, 2023 last year. And they're like, yeah, that's thank you very much for sending the information. Goodbye. We're not interested in Europe. We're not changing nothing. So one, I would love to change the name. Because the reason for changing the name, not only do we need good therapeutic treatments, which we'll talk about, I know something about that, but we need to have people that realize that PTSD

is something you don't need to live with, that there is a way out of it. But to me, PTSD and a broken leg is the same thing. You should be able to diagnose it. You should be able to treat it consistently, right? So a broken leg in a dog, for example, looks the same as a broken leg in a human. X-ray shows a broken leg. Easy, You put a cast on, you don't say, put some, rub some dirt and it start running up and down. So...

I treated a dog successfully for PTSD. Took away his PTSD symptoms. There were experimental publications about using rat treatment, using stellate stuff I do on rats and it seems to work with PTSD. The point is that biologic, and actually the last thing to remember when people say PTSD is an invisible wound. My answer to that it's invisible if you have the wrong scanner. If you have advanced scanners like PET scans, you can actually see the brain, PTSD.

Dr. Eugene Lipov (11:38.966)
Shocking. So my point is if you can see then the scanner There was a study done along which California they did stellar ganglion block stuff I do yeah They were able to demonstrate the reversal of the part of the brain controls PTSD called amygdala You have to the block Well, I bizarre this is a This is crazy It's real. I mean it happened. It's happening now. Look at Peter Shirelli a four-star He's been added this in 2013

So I'm a veteran from, I'm an OEF veteran. Deployed to Afghanistan, saw a lot of things. We came home and it was understood that when we were asked, how are you doing, that you were gonna say you were okay. Because you didn't want, number one, it was understood that you were not gonna be a liability to your unit and number two, that if you said that you were not okay, that something bad would happen. You had no idea what it was, they never explained it to you.

Granted, I was 21 years old at the time. But this is how everyone felt. And I'm sure it wasn't just only in the Marine Corps. I'm sure it happened in all branches. I'm sure it happened everywhere. But it's because we don't understand any of this. Nobody talks about it. Well, look at this. This is special forces from Canada. They have the same problems. I've treated a bunch of first-year operators here. We've treated some people in Australia.

It's across services, across globe. doesn't matter. In Russia, PTSD used to be called Chechnya syndrome. Symptoms? Increased suicide rate, depression, all of that. There's no difference. There's no difference where the trauma came from. I'm sure now it's going to be Ukraine syndrome next. Whatever. Plus I've trained doctors in Ukraine. They started to do them in Ukraine. Not in Russia. That's wonderful.

I throw my line somewhere. Yeah, no, I hear you. So as a veteran infantry, I was a scout sniper. I got out and I think one of the things and I think this will resonate with you is that, and I'm sure you've seen this and heard this, but we have been expected to perform on our own individually, singularly, whether we're part of a team or we are a team leader or a sergeant, we have been held to this standard.

Dr. Eugene Lipov (14:04.344)
by the unit, our leadership, by our platoon. And then we get out and it's just us, which means that we still need to do that. And I think that admitting or saying that we have PTSD feels like a weakness. Correct. my point is that that's the way that the language has been told to us. That's the word. because we don't acknowledge it, because for the longest we are in denial, we don't want to address it. Instead,

It comes off as anxiety, depression, failed marriages, drinking. I did all these things, all of them. And I did not like who I was, but I felt like, I have to love myself because I was a Marine. I was a scout sniper. was in Afghanistan. And at some point something flipped for me and I started addressing it. I started getting help. But just like you said, the moment that I accepted that I had PTSD, seen as PTSD,

You're right. I felt like, well, now it's a lifelong thing for me. This is something that I will have to suffer with. So lifestyle with forever. And I think that also hurts just as much as it was hurting before when I wasn't addressing. I'll you it's worse. And I'll tell you why. The reason my mother took her life because she lost hope. living in PTSD or PTSD, which I have personally lived in that as well, puts a lot of pressure on you. And if you look down 50,

50 years, why would they live in 50 years of misery? If you take away the hope, what's the reason for living? I mean, that's how I see it because notice the name, right? So to me, you need to have hope to be alive. So if you don't have that, you can have all the accolades and all this. But if you know inside you're full of shit and you have all those symptoms, which are very painful and there's no comfortable place anywhere, you can't sleep right.

Your mail equipment doesn't work so good. You're to have heart attacks, all of that. That is why there is non-interventional psychiatry, which Stella and this part of it, we're going talk about that. I think this hope is huge. Yeah. Cause you know, if you look down, like, okay, I'm doing fine. I don't have to suffer for 50 years. That's what my mother was telling me. It's like, you know, I'm suffering. It feels every day, it feels like it takes all the effort I have just to put one through another. Yeah. Which is a hella way to live, right?

Dr. Eugene Lipov (16:30.564)
That's a hell of a way to live. So we're to work on helping you today. Thank you. I look forward to it. I'm really excited for what not just the next two weeks are going to look like, but the next two years. I think we can do a lot. I have had absolute honor to work with amazing veterans as well as active duty personnel. And then I think it's a huge thing. I think it's a huge problem, but it is solvable. What I'm talking about though,

This is now easy, not easy, but it's possible to solve what we have with what we have today scientifically. It's nice to dream. had like Brain Link and all the other hyper advanced stuff. But the stuff that I do, I know how to do and it works very well rapidly. It can be used today. Why are we waiting 20 years to treat our veterans? So this is unheard of.

And the reason I say that is because I posted about this last night on TikTok and on social media and all of the people that were commenting and replying, a majority of them out of the comments had never heard of this. And they had never heard of this. And even the people that had didn't have the right information. And I didn't have any information because I heard about this also a little bit. Dakota Meyer talked about it on the Joe Rogan podcast, which you should definitely be on by the way. We got a pitch to Joe Rogan. Right now, let's do it.

Alright, so start and I'll finish. I think that there are people on this planet that have a different point of view than others. And I think those people need to be heard and need to be seen because it's important to put this out there. And as a veteran who thought that the moment that I accepted I have PTSD, it means that this is my life forever and I will have to deal with it, go to the VA, go to appointments, take medicine, whatever, rest of my life and suffer from it.

People like Dr. Eugene here, Lipov, are truly pioneers in what they're doing. So if Joe Rogan or Jocko Willink, because both are freaking amazing people, and I know they both know each other really well, happen to see this, I think this is something needs to be talked about more. I think you guys should have Dr. Eugene Lipov on your show because most veterans, and I'm speaking as a veteran that understands and hears from lot of veterans on a day-to-day basis, do not understand that this is even a possibility.

Dr. Eugene Lipov (18:55.672)
And I think that if we change the framework of how we look at what's possible and creating, not just switching this, but creating hope, I think that would be amazing. But it's realistic hope. The cool thing is false hope is worse than no hope. But this is realistic based on science. So the thing I would want to discuss with whichever, whoever can help you promote this message. Basically, the name needs to be changed. And what it will do is open people up to understand that it's...

PTSD is actually post-traumatic stress injuries. There is a brain change that is seen on scans. One. Two, there are treatments available. It could be stelliganglion block, which I know Joe Rogan talked about it was Dakota Meyer was interesting that he, when he looked it up, he was looking at my, my article and my face was on it, which I find pretty funny. But stelliganglion block is something I came up with in 2006 and I published it in 2008.

But there are other things I would like to talk about, such as what does PTSD do to aging? So we're doing a study with UCLA right now, reversing aging using stellagangian block, because if you can treat PTSD, your aging is being reversed. Because one of the things that people don't think about PTSD or PTSD, physiological effects, increased aging, twice the chance of heart attacks, up to 85 % of men with PTSD have sexual dysfunction. And all of that can be treated

relatively simply using Steadicam Devlog, which is crazy if you think about it, but it makes sense. If you're writing from the tiger, you don't want anything sticking out. Right? If the sympathetic system is overactive, you don't want that. That's a bad thing. So people who have the biggest platforms or even 20 people, was have platforms, whatever. But I think the name needs to be changed. And the thing, the more people talk about it, the quicker I have tried everything I possibly could.

to talk to the American Psychiatric Association. I filled out all the science paper, I explained everything, they go, there's not an update and not an update. So let's say between your podcast, Joe's podcast and whoever podcasts, let's say there's a million or 10 million people fill out my, I have a little survey up online. And then I'll take that survey and give it to the APA and say, hey, look how many people want this change, change it, you will save lives. How often do you have a chance to truly save lives? Not that often. I think it's great to be entertained.

Dr. Eugene Lipov (21:22.658)
It's great to learn things, but when you do things like that, that can actually change lives. I've heard people come and tell me it's like, know, just to me, in fact, I've heard you've been talking about this PTS, I think forever. Just to me, in fact, I have changed my perspective. Then I knew because it doesn't make sense. Why would the shot in the neck do anything with PTSD, which is emotional, whatever. I don't know. I don't know that either because it's not an emotional, whatever. It's just a brain change that.

Any mammal can get PTSD. You can get it in rats, experimentally, consistently. You can do it in dogs and you can do in humans. Can we spend a short amount of time talking about what PTSD kind of, what happens in the neck specifically with nerves that happens when you go through a traumatic event such as being in a firefight, seeing someone die, being involved in something crazy. So how about if I tell you the whole story? Yeah, that'd wonderful.

So the question, what happens during trauma? What is, what is PTSD for physiological? We're not talking about whatever, blah, blah, fluffy. And what does telegangue demlogue do? That's fair. That's what it So you need to know a couple of structures to understand the biology. So there is a part of the brain is called the amygdala. Amygdala controls fight and flight. And then, so fight and flight, again, amygdala. When something bad happens, amygdala lights up.

And then it tells, for example, if antelope is scared, if you scan his brain, the amygdala is overactive and it says, okay, it's time to run. It tells the fight and flight nerve system to start running. Just how we've built. Right. So if this trauma is severe enough, what happens is fight and flight nerves get over-activated and they grow. So the way the nerves fight and flight nerves start in the neck and go up to the brain and they connect to the amygdala.

So if there is a severe stress, so let's say there's usually five nerves, five to five nerves. After severe stress, now you got 10. Each one of those things pump out norepinephrine. Norepinephrine is like adrenaline. Yes. Probably heard that. So if you take fluid around the brain, which is the most accurate way of assessing your transmittance, norepinephrine level will be twice as high in some of these PTSD compared to without. Really? So that's been shown. No question.

Dr. Eugene Lipov (23:50.382)
So if you're interested in those details, you can read my science article 2009 explains all that. Anyway, during, so when again, trauma occurs, the reason this extra nerve growth happens is because the brain produces something called NGF. It's a molecule that's called neurotrophin that makes things grow, especially fight and flight nerves. So that molecule goes from the brain after trauma, hits the stelligangular, which is where the nerves connect, fight and flight nerves connect.

Once NGF gets there, as long as it's there, those extra nerves are there. Okay. And as long as you have the extra nerves, then pop out more norepinephrine. Makes sense? Yeah. So when you do local anesthetic here, that's what we did yesterday. We're going to do the other side today because there are two amygdala, right? So that's why we're going to do heat bulb. Anyway, so when we do the NGF reduction, so local anesthetic reduce NGF. Why? Got build it that way. Again, if you want.

Details look at my 2009 article. Anyway, so when you reduce NGF, the extra nerves go away. It's called pruning. So local anesthetic works like that. Okay. In about 10, 15 minutes, norepinephrine goes down. So people feel they can take a deep breath. They don't feel as agitated. They're more calm. Yeah. But that other thing that happened is really cool. In about 24, 48 hours, pruning starts. So extra nerves go away.

So we treated the guy 17 years ago. There were special forces. was patrolling the street in Iraq. had to shoot a 10-year-old kid, laid in explosives. Horrible. Tried to come home, tried to kill his wife a few times. Anyway, we treated him twice. 17 years ago, he still didn't go. Wow. I have so many questions. How does that answer your Go ahead. We have time. I'm not in a hurry. Do you think that... I'm sure you more than just think I'm sure you know, but because we developed those extra nerve receptors, right?

No, not receptors, extra nerves actually. Extra nerves. Do think that has something to do with why so many veterans are looking for chaos or create chaos because they're looking for something to make them feel alive? Let me give you an answer to that. So actually, one of the best scientists in the world in this space is called Steven Porteous. So, Pallivegal theory, amazing man. So, one of the things, so he studied like fish and reptiles, whatever.

Dr. Eugene Lipov (26:14.436)
So it turns out human beings are very bad. If you slow them down, they feel like they're dying. So I'll connect the two for you. you're a hundred percent right. So if you look at most forts in the United States, they always have a motorcycle that's destroyed sitting in front of the gates. Why? Because some lunatic has been driving like a crazy man, right? And they get into motorcycle accidents all the freaking time. Why?

They call them adrenaline junkies, right? But why is that is the question. So here's the physiology of it. It's really cool. So if you scare a turtle, turtle goes in the water, dives down, takes a deep breath, doesn't breathe for four hours or whatever number of hours, right? So the vagus nerve is activated. So they hold the breath and this is they design. In our case, so fight, flight or freeze, right?

So if you have too much stress, then people freeze. They can't even move, right? If you look at the monitor, sometimes people, it's called a vasovagal episode. The heart rate goes down, the blood pressure, they can actually stop the heart. Just putting an IV in, they can stop somebody's heart because they're sensitive. Same thing here, if somebody has too much stress, they're vagus nerve is too active. You're trying to keep yourself alive by running around like a nutball, jumping on airplanes.

anything to get wrapped up. So there's more fight than freeze. You're trying to prevent the freeze, but you're always fighting the freeze. That's why the lunatic drives 100 miles per hour weaving between cars. He's fighting his reptilian response. This can save so many lives. Hell yes! Because the moment that... It's a domino effect. The moment that the name can be changed, the moment that veterans like myself won't be scared to...

Ask for help and to get help which means that more information more research more funding will go into this procedure. Yeah, and in turn The information will be out there and veterans will understand that there's there's nothing Permanently wrong with me. I won't be like this forever. It's not a shame also the other part is yeah You know this whole concept does the right to dirt and to keep walking it off. That's stupid It is I think that I think that it's the military creating war fighters and

Dr. Eugene Lipov (28:38.072)
That's the military's job. There's nothing wrong with that. You're right. For sure. And I agree with that. But I also think that we need to understand that the VA needs to be just as important. And when I say VA, I know that you probably have your opinions. do too. What I mean by that is that we have to understand that the military is there to create war fighters and we have to have something. Maybe it's the VA. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's something else that helps create, I don't know, civilians again. How about successful citizens?

That's very similar to what my successful after your service? Yeah. I think one of the best things... The reason I love working with military people, I used to run trauma unit, right? So I've never been... Nobody shot at me. I've never picked up a gun like that. But I understand that you have to be dependable. You have to do this, it is specific structures and you have a team. I think that's the best. So I think in many ways...

The training you have is invaluable, but you can keep that without this. Yes. Right. Without that. Why did you have to have broken marriages? Why do you have anger, nastiness, beating people? It's not, and you can't help it. Then the people feel, there's the cycle, right? So the other thing is I'm very big in this called secondary PTSD, which is wives and girlfriends, whatever. So the saying is when the guys go to war, the family goes with.

They're not going by themselves. That's where they're at. So you got to treat the guys. So I like to treat the guys, the wives and the children because it's all the cycle. This whole cycle of bullshit. If you could stop it, just going to be much better life for everybody and more productive. And look at, look what we have here. have veteran, right? Because I treat kids too. Mother, small child.

All of those people here can get PTSD. They all need help. People think, no, no, 10 years old can't get PTSD, horse shit. Sure you can. You know what's crazy to me? I'm going to share something with you that think you'll find. I'm sure you know this, but I make videos online. I do my TED Talk videos. You guys see them. The ones that are always just like they flip a switch for people. It's when I say something along the lines of

Dr. Eugene Lipov (31:01.7)
you're addicted to chaos because you were so used to it in the military. Hundreds of comments with people saying, I've never thought of it that way. I didn't realize that that's what was happening. And it was, it's what happened to me. I didn't realize it either. I got out, I went into law enforcement. I was drinking all the time. I was smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. I was getting fat and nasty, but I was going so hard into my work that it was creating all these other problems, failed marriages.

I was an asshole. was a jerk to people. I wanted people not to respect me, but to fear me. Fear you, of course. Because I'm like, I'm a Marine. I'm a scout sniper. You got control. Exactly. No, I got it. I got And all of it fell apart, my man. All of it, And I'm at a point where I have none of those things in my life anymore because... Good for you. I took a lot of work though. It wasn't easy. So much work. And I really feel like this is going to be...

this procedure that what we're doing here today, what we're talking about today, that's going to be the thing that helps me and other veterans get to that next level that maybe they never thought they'd be able to get to. Well, whole thing is, think of things. So think, I'm an asshole. You don't have to live with that. But if you think about it, say, hey, my brain is shooting the wrong way. I was a nice guy before I went to Iraq. Now I'm complete asshole. like, why? It's physiology. Hello? But you know what's hard about that though? You don't know who you are when you're 18.

So you don't know who you're coming back to be. But your family can tell you what you were like. For sure. But it's so hard. I think about it now and it's like, doctor, I joined when I was 18. I went in and I got out and I tell people that it's like you're moving to a new country. You have to learn the culture. You have to learn how to talk, how to speak, how to... I remember, just a quick short story. I remember yelling at a girl in a college class because she fell asleep.

And for the past five years, whenever somebody fell asleep, you were all gonna get in trouble. So you woke them up. So for five years I've known this. When I woke her up and I thought I did nothing wrong, she left the room crying. It wasn't well received, as we do say. The professor pulls me aside and he's like, were you in the military? I was like, yes. And I thought he was gonna give me an attaboy. No, he's like, you cannot talk to people like that anymore. This is not it.

Dr. Eugene Lipov (33:22.808)
And it's it's the thing about it. What's interesting with we've seen a lot of people after the procedures and that's not, there's no hundred percent procedure. Anybody says, a hundred percent bullshit. It's not possible. success was 80%. It's not bad. But what's interesting is a lot of times the spouse, you giving my spouse back what they were like before X before deployment before.

trauma before being a firefighter, before being a policeman. In your case, you have a double whammy. Plus, Chicago. God bless you for keeping us safe. I I think that was like, that is a very tough job. It was what I needed in the moment. was the only thing. Thanks for saving us. mean, it's like, believe me, this has been, living in Chicago has been very frightening for me. It was self-serving, if I'm being honest. It was self-serving because I keep, I love the path. How about a synergistic?

You kept us safe and he did something for you. Absolutely. don't care about you. I just want to be safe. No, I appreciate that. I like that. I like that mentality. But synergy, right? You don't want to be a parasite. You want to be synergistic, right? Collaboration is the key. And it gave you something you needed, but somebody had to be on the street and you had a lot of military training, which is very helpful. I mean, you got great training. Yeah. Anyway, so we end with something and we'll go see how you do.

Yeah, if you feel like it, we can come back and do a little at the end after you done. I'd like to just say one piece before we end. This is This is, it's very eye opening. Having these conversations are important and also understanding that it doesn't define you. You don't have to be that forever. And the fact that there is a way out of this thing that we've been told by media, by our friends, by other veterans.

that well, this is what you're gonna deal with for the rest of your life. Like it doesn't have to be that way. And I'm excited to see what happens from this. I'm gonna be talking more about this for sure. I'm gonna be putting as much information out there as I can about this, because I really wanna help you with this endeavor. And what you're doing is absolutely amazing. I just wanna thank you on behalf of veterans and you know. Thank you brother. Thank you for the work you're doing doctor. It means a lot to me and I appreciate you taking time to have me on today. really Thanks for coming. Of course, thank you. See you soon. See you.